Curse

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 15, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

After the 08/07/08 update, I decided to try a smiting build again with some buffed skills and improved AI:

[build=OwAS4YIPMku4Fp6jXp+uErP]

Unyielding Aura is just there to make Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight a little stronger.

[build=OwUS4YIPKhu4Fp6jXp+ukgA]

Keep Arcane Mimicry canceled and make the hero steal Unyielding Aura. Echo was meant to make this monk a little versatile depending on what skill you decide to Echo for it. You don't actually have to micro it, but the skill that gets Echo'd will be random.

[build=OwQT42HC3BTXPmHVf8K13lYHAA]

If you're playing a slower/harder hitting class like a Derv, take Judge's Insight over Strength of Honor.

I'm still abit undecided on a few skills and plan on replacing some others, but this was enough to at least vanquish Dalada Uplands. I'll fix it up abit after messing around a little more. Also meant to replace Judge's Intervention with PS to at least take advantage of Defender's Zeal.

You probably noticed that there's really no direct damage at all. This build was meant to be used by phys classes. The reason is cause they can get away with having overly-defensive team builds since they're able to easily make up for the lack of damage with their high DPS, especially with the buff to [skill]Asuran Scan[/skill] which now has a 0 sec cast. You're better off using a melee class so Smite Hex/Condition are likely to do some damage to mobs when it's used on you.

-Lotus- · Aug 15, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I like :]

I dont think the undead in shards of orr will like it as much.

joshuarodger · Aug 15, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

looks good but i may try and fit [[scourge healing] on there somewhere. especially for a place like SoO. as lotus was saying, i really don't think those groups with 2 monks would enjoy that much.

TheodenKing · Aug 15, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I'm a little unclear on what this is for... are these for heroes in a team of physicals? I thought the thread title was for a smite team.

Anyway... why have a hero echoing random skills? Heroes are mentally challenged... keep it simple and they'll do what you expect.

Good use of [unyielding aura]. That skill is godly now.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 15, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

Anyway... why have a hero echoing random skills? Heroes are mentally challenged... keep it simple and they'll do what you expect.

With Mimicry canceled and Smiter's Boon always up, the skills they're most likely to Echo are Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight/Smite Hex/Condition, so it's pretty safe to let them do it on their own if you don't wanna micro it.

AcousticMeanie · Aug 15, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

With Mimicry canceled and Smiter's Boon always up, the skills they're most likely to Echo are Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight/Smite Hex/Condition, so it's pretty safe to let them do it on their own if you don't wanna micro it.

I tried this, and I can't say that "they're most likely" to echo anything; it seems to be random. Works if you micro it, but that's a constant effort.

A couple minor problems; No anti block or enchant removal. When depending so heavily on physicals I would think it's imperative to make sure you're physicals never miss. I had better luck replacing the [Strength of Honor] monk with a necro running [Strength of Honor] [Barbs][Enfeebling Blood][Rigor Mortis] [Rend Enchantments] and depending on the need for energy or number of physicals [Reaper's Mark]

Second problem; tons of overlap. While this works great in situations when you're under extreme pressure, under normal circumstances it seems to be a little thin.

I really like this team concept and I was excited when I saw the post, but I don't think it's quite practical for everyday use. Good job though.

Question, where did you test this build? I'd like to test it there as well to get a better idea of what you were aiming for.

joshuarodger · Aug 15, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcousticMeanie

Question, where did you test this build? I'd like to test it there as well to get a better idea of what you were aiming for.

i don't know if it's been used/tested elswhere, but he said he vanq'd dalada uplands with it.

DarkSpirit · Aug 15, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

Good use of [unyielding aura]. That skill is godly now.

I still prefer [Aura of Faith] at least on my human monk.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 15, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcousticMeanie

A couple minor problems; No anti block or enchant removal. When depending so heavily on physicals I would think it's imperative to make sure you're physicals never miss.

The blocking thing depends on the area and the class you're playing. I've been using this as a Sin so Wild Strike takes care of stances. I honestly never liked bringing Disenchantment skills. Enchants are often not too much of a threat. Not saying they're all harmless, but they've never been enough to make me use up skillspace on them. As for blocks, I also don't really bother with those often. There's not very many areas where blocks run rampant. The anti-block options arn't so great for PvE either, though Defile Defenses is a pretty good one. Rigor Mortis has a pretty long recharge for PvE. Switching targets is the best way to bypass blocks without taking up skillspace. I like builds that are suited to work in most areas without having too many "just in case" skills.

Of course if you're talking Slaver's Exile, that's a whole different thing.

DarkSpirit · Aug 15, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

The blocking thing depends on the area and the class you're playing. I've been using this as a Sin so Wild Strike takes care of stances. I honestly never liked bringing Disenchantment skills. Enchants are often not too much of a threat. Not saying they're all harmless, but they've never been enough to make me use up skillspace on them.

Disenchantments are useful to get rid of those pesky monk enchants on bosses and makes your damage alot more effective against them. They are not suppose to be a threat in most cases.

Quote:

As for blocks, I also don't really bother with those often. There's not very many areas where blocks run rampant. The anti-block options arn't so great for PvE either, though Defile Defenses is a pretty good one. Rigor Mortis has a pretty long recharge for PvE. Switching targets is the best way to bypass blocks without taking up skillspace.

Not commenting on your specific build but switching target is not always a viable option depending on the situation. Let's say if the target is about to die, it turns on blocking, are you going to just switch target and allow it to self heal back? Also in a Discord team, if you switch target, you have to hex and condition the new target all over again which can slow down your killing speed. And it is going to be a failure to switch target after you have cast AP on it.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 15, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Disenchantments are useful to get rid of those pesky monk enchants on bosses and makes your damage alot more effective against them. They are not suppose to be a threat in most cases.

This is PvE. You can brute-force your way through most of it. It's also not very often that you come up on a monk that happens to have a decent skillbar. Many PvE enemy monks have horrid bars that are usually mixed with some random smite skills that don't do much. There's a difference between monk enchants that happen to just be annoying and the ones that are actually preventing kills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Not commenting on your specific build but switching target is not always a viable option depending on the situation. Let's say if the target is about to die, it turns on blocking, are you going to just switch target and allow it to self heal back?

It depends on the enemy and the self heal it's using, you gotta be specific. If it's really on the verge of death, a few lucky hits can kill it. Henchman caster damage is sometimes useful there, though not great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Also in a Discord team, if you switch target, you have to hex and condition the new target all over again which can slow down your killing speed.

But Discord doesn't even need to switch targets as much in the first place. Blocking won't stop it, and it kills so fast that only Spirit Bond/Prot Spirit will really force you to switch targets, or disenchant it.

Switching targets is a common PvP tactic that works perfectly fine in PvE. Whether or not the player brings anti-block/enchant skills in PvE is just preference, it's never been a necessity.

Turbobusa · Aug 15, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Is echo so great that you have to gimp one of the monks by forcing him to have arcane mimicry? I doubt so.
Even then I find unyealding aura is a waste for what it gives to the build.
Go Rt/mo resto/smite if you want strong party wide heals with damage

DarkSpirit · Aug 15, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

This is PvE. You can brute-force your way through most of it. It's also not very often that you come up on a monk that happens to have a decent skillbar. Many PvE enemy monks have horrid bars that are usually mixed with some random smite skills that don't do much. There's a difference between monk enchants that happen to just be annoying and the ones that are actually preventing kills.

You can brute-force kill a monster that is protected by PS or Aegis over time but it is still faster to disenchant it first before attacking, thus the usefulness of disenchantments.

Quote:

But Discord doesn't even need to switch targets as much in the first place. Blocking won't stop it, and it kills so fast that only Spirit Bond/Prot Spirit will really force you to switch targets, or disenchant it.

True for Discord but you maybe playing a physical char or you may have physical characters in your party (e.g. your friend). If you switch target, your heroes also switch target.

Quote:

Switching targets is a common PvP tactic that works perfectly fine in PvE. Whether or not the player brings anti-block/enchant skills in PvE is just preference, it's never been a necessity.

We are talking about PvE here and anti-block is alot more useful in some situations than in others.

Switching targets is a generic strategy that comes from pvp-land, but does not cater to ALL PvE situations well, for example when using AP on a monster, or with a Discord team.

EDIT: Besides in PvE, unlike PvP, it is not a matter of 50-50 chance of victory or a glorious battle between Last Pride and WM, whenever you enage a pve mob, because you know that you would win, it is just a matter of how FAST you can clear/nuke the area and move on, which is different from a PvP mindset. Switching targets whenever a monster enages a block, instead of using an anti-block, also slows you down. A good PvE build is one that clears the area in the fastest possible time and with the least casualties.

AcousticMeanie · Aug 16, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

The blocking thing depends on the area and the class you're playing. I've been using this as a Sin so Wild Strike takes care of stances. I honestly never liked bringing Disenchantment skills. Enchants are often not too much of a threat. Not saying they're all harmless, but they've never been enough to make me use up skillspace on them. As for blocks, I also don't really bother with those often. There's not very many areas where blocks run rampant. The anti-block options arn't so great for PvE either, though Defile Defenses is a pretty good one. Rigor Mortis has a pretty long recharge for PvE. Switching targets is the best way to bypass blocks without taking up skillspace. I like builds that are suited to work in most areas without having too many "just in case" skills.

Of course if you're talking Slaver's Exile, that's a whole different thing.

For a Sin running [Critical Agility] [Golden Fox Strike] [Wild Strike] & [Shattering Assault] or something similar, this works fine and I see your point. But Warriors, and Dervs aren't so lucky. Especially a warrior using [Flail] and [Enraging Charge] which I dare say is a common combo. You have to counter stance, which is on a 20 second cool down, or get stuck walking over there not doing any damage which this whole build is based on.

Switching targets is meh, the person blocking you is probably the monk that you need to take down anyway. Instead of playing into their build, why not eliminate the problem?

I guess I should of said that I micro Rigor and Rend, the hero would just spam it at will which doesn't help anyone. With heroes I believe less is more, the simpler you make their job the better. Giving them "Just in case" skills to be microed gives them less to choose from giving you better control. Too much forces you to either wait for the hero to do what you want or micro it, considering that, why not just micro it to start with?

All in all, differences in opinion/need aside, you have a good setup. It doesn't quite work for me, but I really like the concept.